Having Distinct Limits; Indisputable, Certain

[tmcg]

What is the problem with spelling "definitely"?

My mental spelling mechanism works semi-eidetically. I learned to spell by reading a lot. When I was copyediting romance novels, in the late nineteen-eighties, I became permanently incapable of spelling the word "feisty," because I saw it spelled "fiesty" so many times that it started to look right that way. I fear that the Internet may curse me to a future of double-checking the spelling "definitely" because "definately" has been burned into my optic nerve.

Comments

[helcat.livejournal.com]

I have so much trouble with "weird," it's disconcerting. I think that and "feisty" probably owe much to the i-before-e wiring that much of us have.

[terrymcgarry.livejournal.com]

Probably; I know that to spell "seize" I have to think of "siege," which I know has the "i" and the "e" in the opposite order from "seize." Isn't it funny how things like that wire themselves in?

I have little mnemonickish devices, like "man-made" is the only one with a hyphen, so if it's "homemade" or "handmade," no hyphen. And a very ancient Rolodex card taped to the upper lip of my rolltop desk, with a list of frequently occurring words I got tired of having to look up because I didn't trust myself. When Web 10 became Web 11, I had to double-check them all. Very annoying. *g*

[readwrite.livejournal.com]

2 mnemonics from high school serve me well. First the rule: i before e, except after c, IF it's an EE sound; e before i, if it's NOT an EE sound. Now, the exceptions:

EE sounds that don't follow the rule: Neither weird sheik seizes leisure either.
Non-EE sounds that don't follow the rule: A friend does mischief if he makes a sieve of your handkerchief.

Yes, I know some of those words have alternate pronunciations. But that about covers it.

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

How does one wind up copy-editing romance novels? That would either be a terrific job or a job that would make you want to fake your own death, I'm not sure which.

I used to have trouble only with double letters and not with any other common spelling traps, but I'm beginning to have trouble with -ant vs. -ent in any number of words, and I think it's for the same reason you have trouble with 'feisty' -- because I see them wrong more often than I see them right. (And occasionally I find myself having to think twice to know whether to use 'lie' or 'lay.' Alas.)

[terrymcgarry.livejournal.com]

Heh, it was a bit of both. Copyediting is always a bit of both, no matter the subject or genre of book. *g*

I ended up doing romance novels because a romance editor was the friend-of-a-friend who put in a good word for me and got me my first freelance job. I'd taken a copyediting course through a local grad school's continuing-education program, but the book that turned me on to the idea--Copyediting: A Practical Guide, by Karen Judd, which is back in print--was equally good instruction. I started out on the romance and horror paperbacks that Zebra Books was publishing then, and it was a lot of fun.

Yes, -ant vs. -ent is another one! I commiserate.

[readwrite.livejournal.com]

I think getting uncertain about words you've known how to spell for years is an occupational disease of the trade. Pendent or pendant? Defendent or defendant? Likable or likeable? It can drive you nuts sometimes.

And it gets worse: If you work for different magazines, they each have a house style. So it's rock 'n' roll one place and rock & roll another. Serial comma yes, serial comma no. I worked for a whole summer on a restaurant guide and virtually memorized their pages-long style sheet, with hundreds of food terms from cuisines around the globe--only to go straight to another food-oriented publication, which had another style sheet, with many of the same terms, all different...So that tarte tatin at one was tarte Tatin at another...etc. etc.

I know that one of the great pleasures should I publish my own book will be saying, "I'm going to spell these words my way, and screw you guys if you don't like it...

Romance novels are pretty low on the list of books I like to work on, but I've certainly done my share...

[terrymcgarry.livejournal.com]

Your food-magazines experience trumps anything I can come up with, but you're so right about the occupational hazards.

New Yorker style was very different from Chicago style, and I went back and forth on a daily basis (sometimes hourly, if I slipped in some freelance work on my lunch break). Then, styles differed among the book publishers that mainly followed Chicago--Tor allowed some things, Del Rey didn't, Bantam had other preferences, and Pocket had a whole set of style sheets just for Trek books. At least I'd flushed most of the AP style from my system after college. But it occurred to me more than once that if I ever tried to work for an academic journal that followed MLA style it would be a gory scene, brains and skull fragments covering the office walls.

Author preference is a joy. So is a publisher that's cool with it. :)

[charmingbillie.livejournal.com]

When I was young, I could not spell 'chief' for love or money (which is pretty funny when you think about it because there's only, like, two ways it _could_ be spelled). Now I have trouble with separate for much the same reason you mention--from seeing it spelled 'seperate' so often.

Deb

[terrymcgarry.livejournal.com]

Whew--"seperate" still jumps out at me as Wrong (as opposed to just setting off "you don't know how to spell this word for sure so look it up" alarms), but it's right up there with "definately" in the Internet's Most Frequently Misspelled Words list.

What, you didn't have "chief" burned into your brain from the cover of Silver Chief, Dog of the North??? How could you not??? *g*

(I loved that book so much that I went to abebooks.com a couple of years ago and bought one that looks just like the edition I checked out of my grammar school's library over and over again. It's on the shelf next to Bob, Son of Battle and Lassie Come Home and Jack London, and I need to track down the Alfred Payson Terhune books next.)

Been there, done that

[shadowhelm.livejournal.com]

I have Word correct every time I write "definately"

Re: Been there, done that

[terrymcgarry.livejournal.com]

Those autocorrect things drive me crazy, but I sympathize. (I wonder if I could set WordPerfect to fix only the word "teh"?)

[fionagh.livejournal.com]

I remember definitely because it contains the word finite in it.

[akaspeedo.livejournal.com]

A lot of misspelings are understandable. What I don't get about "definately" is how the people who spell it that way *pronounce* it. Def-in-ATE-ly?? What kind of english is that??

It seems to be an evil internet virus.

[akaspeedo.livejournal.com]

"English" with a capitol E, even. *g*

[fionagh.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure that's why they spell it 'definately' because they heard it 'definately' through pronunciation, theirs or someone else's. I'm not primarily a read-and-learn speller, but an aural-speller. (And I don't mean phonetic like the sorry Sesame Street examples. I mean that I sound out words according to how I've heard them, and then I double check the dictionary.)

I bet a lot of other people are in the same boat. There are a ton of words that are being mutated into different pronunciations today. I have some older writing colleagues who occasionally stumble upon a word that used to be pronounced one way in the sixties, but is now pronounced another. For example, the word weekend is mutating to the emphasis being placed on the other syllable. And it throws a lot of people off.

Being an anthropologist at heart, more than a grammarian, I'm all for the evolution of language, but then you get to things like "definately" (which I've heard pronounced with a soft "ah" not "ate") and can completely see the confusion that results in aural spelling.

And for the record, I had to look up the word "pronunciation" while writing this, because of my aural-spelling ways. I always want to write "pronunciation" as it should be, but know that it comes from "pronounce" and have a freak out moment.

[akaspeedo.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure that's why they spell it 'definately' because they heard it 'definately' through pronunciation, theirs or someone else's.

I'm sure you're right. But for the life of me I can't "hear" what that would sound like. Everyone I've ever known has pronounced it the way it's spelled. How on earth did the pronunciation get whacked in the first place, and so uniformly?? Def-in-AT-ly? Why not def-in-UT-ly? "DefinITly" without the "e"?

Rhetorical, of course.

[terrymcgarry.livejournal.com]

I was just thinking that the Dubliner I used to work for in Ireland would be helpful on this one, because he pronounces it "def-in-ITE-ly"...and there's your post. Heh.

[kalligraphy.livejournal.com]

My solution to the whole definite problem, is that I know the word finite is in it. To the best of my knowledge, there is no word finate. I also spell laboratory by pronouncing it wrong. There is a he in their and Wednesday is spelled like wed-ness-day, just drop an s. At least those are some of my own defenses to the whole spelling problem. :)

[terrymcgarry.livejournal.com]

I'm sure I do the pronouncing-it-a-different-way thing too, and I just can't think of an example right now. I know I do the spell-it-wrong-to-see-how-it-looks thing. I cannot spell the word "jeopardy" correctly the first time out. I type "jeapo" and go Oh, wait, I've got it backward again, and then if I'm not sure (because maybe I have the backward way flipped around after getting it backward so many times, and backward of backward would be right) I finish typing out "jeapordy" to make sure it looks wrong. I'm pretty sure that one is because my inner ear hears it "-pordy," something like what was mentioned above.

[merlinpole.livejournal.com]

Stuff that I see constantly abused in mailing lists:

paid ("payed"
laid ("layed")

it's and its

weird ("wierd")

separate ("seperate")

and I've seen "supersede" in way too many published books printed instead as "supercede." I'd been guilty in the past of that one myself, years ago.

[terrymcgarry.livejournal.com]

IIRC, "supersede" was one of the test words that someone very cool who used to hire freelancers (TNH?) would fire off at prospective copyeditors.

"I'd like to do some work for you."
"Great! Spell 'supersede.'"

"Ophthalmologist" may have been another one.